The prophet left us 2 things, sunnah or ahlul bayt?

Question

I had a conversation with a shia person and he quoted me a hadith:

Prophet Mohammad (PBUH&HF) said He (as) is leaving us 2 things
1. the Holy Quran
2. His Holy Ahl-ul-bait
wasnt the second thing Rasulallah was leaving us ''sunnah'' and not ''ahlul bayt''? if so can anyone post me the hadith of the version which states ''sunnah'' with its sources.
thanks

Answer 1

The Prophet (pbuh) said that he is leaving two things behind. one is the quran and another is my sunnah. don't confuse in it.

Answer 2

"BTW when Prophet(S) left us where was his sunnah?



Did Prophet (s) ever told his companions to write down his sunnah?



At that time there was no recorded sunnah thats why...



Following Ahl al-bayt(as) = Following Prophet(s)



Prophet(s) also said:

I am from Ali and Ali is from me

--------------------------------------...



No one is saying that the Prophet did also say about the sticking to the Quran and taking care the Ahlulbayt, sunnis do accept those narrations as authentic.



The problem is due to shia stubborness about the fact that those ahadith were said by the Prophet in Ghadeer Khum, not in Arafat where all those who performed the hajj with the Prophet were there listening his khutbah, which he also said that muslims should follow the Quran and His sunnah



The Prophet said: "I have left among you two matters by holding fast to which, you shall never be misguided: Allah's Book and the Sunna of His Prophet. (Narrated from Ibn `Abbas by al-Bayhaqi in al-Sunan al-Kubra (10:114 #20108) and - as part of a longer hadith - by al-Hakim (1:93=1990 ed. 1:171) who declared it sahih)

===========



Answer to the questions:



"BTW when Prophet(S) left us where was his sunnah?



Reply: Gross Ignorance of the meaning of Sunnah. The hadiths which you have quoted and proved to be authentic are in and of themselves SUNNAH, i.e. Sunnah Qawliyya.



Did Prophet (s) ever told his companions to write down his sunnah?



Reply: GROSS IGNORANCE AGAIN - the Prophet did tell his companions to write down his Sunnah:



“Write from me, for by the One Who has my soul in His hand, nothing other than the truth has ever come out of my mouth”



Moreover, those who were not learned to write did memorized the sunnah of the Prophet thats why we have the so-called science of ISNAD.





"At that time there was no recorded sunnah thats why"



Reply: Gross Ignorance: see my replies above.



"Following Ahl al-bayt(as) = Following Prophet(s)"



Reply: Gross Ignorance: The Sunnah of the Prophet was heard, and seen by those who were with him , ie. the Shabah. The Imams of the Shia rawafids were not born yet that time. The Ahlul Bayt primarily includes the wives of the Prophet Surah 33:28-34



"Prophet(s) also said:

I am from Ali and Ali is from me"



Everybody knows that because there were cousins and Ali was brought up by the Prophet in his house, but Ali is not all-knowing that he would know and see every event of the Prophet's life. So yes Ali is one of the many sources of the sunnah but he is not the only way. So you take the sunnah from Ali, from the wives of the Prophet, from the companions of the Prophet who were eyewitnesses of the Prophet.



Every sane shia would agree that eyewitnesses are far more reliable than those who were not there, especially those were not born yet. The muhajirin and the ansars are highly exalted by Allah in the Quran despite hatred of the majooses of iran.



-------------



Sources: Abu Jaiyana

Answer 3

U will notice that the Prophet (pbuh) says that in the Quran is guidance and it is a light which we should hold fast to without which we will go astray. It can be inferred from this that the Quran is a source of deriving our religion from. On the other hand, when the Prophet (pbuh) talks about his family, he says only “I remind you of my family”. In the version used by the Shia website above, we even read the words quite clearly: “Beware of how you behave with them…” And in another version, the Prophet (pbuh) uses the words “how you treat them after me.”





Therefore, the Hadith al-Thaqalayn is in reference to taking care of (and behaving with) the Prophet’s family after his death, and it cannot be construed in the Shia manner at all. While the Quran is referred to as a source of guidance and light, this is not the case for the Ahlel Bayt, which is not referred to as a source of religion. The Hadith only directs the Muslims to refrain from adopting an uncalled for attitude towards them or a disrespectful behavior towards them.





If the Prophet (pbuh) really meant what the Shia are implying, then the Prophet (pbuh) should have said something like “follow the Quran and my Ahly Bayt, the light and gudiance”, instead of saying: “…The Quran, which is the light of guidance…and I remind you of my family…”

~~~~~~~



►It is impossible to discuss the Hadith al-Thaqalayn without first understanding the specific context in which the Prophet (pbuh) said what he said. This is a general rule of thumb pertaining to the Islamic canon as a whole: it is important to know the background in which a Quranic verse was revealed or a certain Hadith was said.





For example, the Quranic verse “slay them wherever you find them” is often used by Orientalists to wrongfully make it appear as if Islam advocates the slaying of people wherever you find them all the time. Of course, if we look at when this verse was revealed, we find that it was specifically revealed during a battle between the Muslims and the Quraish Mushriks; this makes us realize that it is not a general ruling to slay people but rather it was a verse revealed in a specific situation.





►Likewise, Hadith al-Thaqalayn was revealed in a certain context and this background is important to understand if we want to see what the Prophet (pbuh) meant when he said what he said. First off, the Hadith about following Quran and Sunnah was said by the Prophet (pbuh) in front of the larger gathering during his Farewell Sermon atop Mount Arafat. However, the Hadith al-Thaqalayn (i.e. Quran and Ahlel Bayt) was not said during the Farewell Sermon; instead, the Prophet (pbuh) said the Hadith al-Thaqalayn in front of the smaller gathering of people at a place called Ghadir Khumm, a half-way point to Medinah. It was directed only towards those living in Medinah, because the Prophet’s family lived in Medinah and therefore the task of taking care of them would fall upon their shoulders.

Answer 4

The farewell Pilgrimage of the Prophet Muhammed is a corner stone in the Muslim historic previous. the suitable Sermon given by technique of the Prophet in this pilgrimage became witnessed by technique of hundreds of Muslims. There are in spite of the incontrovertible fact that 3 variations of this sermon in the Hadiths books. This by technique of itself displays the degree of corruption of the Hadiths books because it fairly is the main witnessed speech of the prophet Muhammed. a million- First version, " I left for you what in case you postpone to, you heavily isn't erroneous, the e book of God and my kin. Muslim 40 4/4, Nu2408; Ibn Hanbal 4/366; darimi 23/a million, nu 3319. it fairly is the version made up by technique of the Shiite Muslims. 2-2nd version, "I left for you what in case you postpone to, you heavily isn't erroneous, the e book of God and my Sunnah" . Muwatta, 40 six/3 it fairly is the version made up by technique of the Sunni Muslims. 3- 0.33 version, "I left for you what in case you postpone to, you heavily isn't erroneous, the e book OF GOD." Muslim 15/19, nu 1218; Ibn Majah 25/80 4, Abu dawud 11/fifty six. all 3 variations have "actual' chain of narration ! on the top of the day ,its all approximately p.c.. n chosen ! definite greater effective than 20 verses say Obey Allah and Obey Rasool, Alhamdolillahe, try this ! dont obey bukhary ! bukhary isn't Rasool, definite Obey Rasool ! it is so ordinary yet very confusing to comprehend ! Quran made Muhammed a Rasool ,and not sunnah made him Rasool,and Muhammed Obeyed The Message , save on with this sunnah and Obey The Message. start up from here [37:35] while they have been advised, "Laa Elaaha Ella Allah [there is not any different god beside GOD]," they grew to become smug. [40 seven:19] You shall understand that: "there is not any different god beside GOD," and ask forgiveness of your sins and the sins of all believing women and adult males persons. GOD is completely conscious of your judgements and your suitable destiny. [3:18] GOD bears witness that there is not any god different than He, and so do the angels and people who very own information. certainly and equitably, he's absolutely the god; there is not any god yet He, the Almighty, maximum smart. Obey Rasool ! Fajr stated all of it !!!

Answer 5

The best thing is to check the hadiths like Muslim & Bakhari & others.

"Hadith al-Thaqalayn": The Hidden Truth, you'll find your answer... watch this video

http://youtu.be/vjyIBqfUi3Y

Answer 6

►If Hadith al-Thaqalayn meant what the Shia imply, then surely the Prophet (pbuh) would have said it in front of all the Muslims during his Farewell Sermon. Instead, the Prophet (pbuh) only said this to those living in the same city as his family, again implying that what he meant was to take care of them. And perhaps the biggest proof is the fact that the Prophet (pbuh) said the Hadith al-Thaqalayn during his speech at Ghadir Khumm.





►A group of soldiers were harshly criticizing Ali (ra) and complaining about him to the Prophet (pbuh) at the place of Ghadir Khumm.It was in response to this hatred, abuse, and disrespect towards Ali (ra) that the Prophet (pbuh) found it necessary to defend his family in the Hadith al-Thaqalayn. This serves as a very strong proof that the meaning behind the Prophet’s words were not about deriving religion from the Ahlel Bayt but rather about behaving with them, taking care of them, honoring them, respecting them, etc.





►Conclusion



The Prophet (pbuh) was reminding the Muslims to take care of his family after his death (i.e. “Beware of how you behave with them when I am gone from amongst you”), and this is what is known as Hadith al-Thaqalayn.



[Written By: Ibn al-Hashimi, www.ahlelbayt.com]

Answer 7

I have yet to understand how people keep saying the descendants of teh Prophet (pbuh) when in fact that is wrong. The Prophet (pbuh) had no living male heir and Islamically family heredity is traced through male heirs.



So technically what is considered as the Prophet's (pbuh) family is really Ali's (RA) family.

Answer 8

A- im happy with the little i know,at least im sure that i hold on to the right belief,im not even gonna bother argu abt it,im 2 tired for that,besides ur opinion worth so little to me :)





B- i don't mind copy/pasting,its actually better for me,at least i wont have to use translator or spell checker so im good and i copy/paste the right info unlike u.





C- whatever version of hadith u'll come up with,the answer will remain the same ,since i already "copy/pasted" the context of the hadith,just read it,perhaps u may actually get something for once.





D- how exactly im making look the prophet(pbuh) contradicting himself,those were 2 different situations,what the prophet said at ghadir khumm was in defence of ali who was being criticize...ooofffff do we really need to keep saying the same thing





E- he didn't contradict himself,he talked abt 2 different things,one to adhere to quran and his sunna,two, to never mistreated ahlul bayt,i don't know why ur "super" brain is failing to realize this ?





F- and why are u quoting the same thing over and over,no matter how much u quote it,in different situations and stick "sunni reference" with it,even with the unauthentic ones,nothing will change,again look at it context,its all abt loving and well behaving with the Prophet’s family.





G- honestly it doesn't matter if its not recorded in shia books,what authentic books u actually have?? u can remove whatever u want,lets face it,shia are the least trusted ppl,just think how many time,u fabricate hadith ,rely on unauthentic chaine .....so founding the hadith in ur book,wont make a difference,sorry but that the truth.





H- avoided?? hmm...is this another one of ur OWN poor assumptions? and who said that every hadith should be found in bukhari or muslim? what the point from the rest of the books then? anything that is varified and classed as authentic is to be used !





I- learn to read "a Shia narrator cannot possibly be accepted on issues related to the Sunni-Shia divide"...so shia are refused as narrators when it comes to certain matters like mentioned above,stop twisting things,words are clear,it do not need ur false injections.





Finally,i would answer ur Q's but they are many,im tired its 6:25am i need to sleep,besides im not interested really,u are known for repeating things,so whatever Q u have it should be answered already by me or anyone else,im really not looking for convincing u with anything,im just replying to zaineb ,im not concerned abt u,just the asker





goodnight all

Answer 9

Salam



The messenger of Allah (PBUH&HF) said: “I am

leaving for you two precious and weighty Symbols

(Al-Thaqalayn) that if you adhere to BOTH of them

you shall not go astray after me. They are the Book

of Allah and my progeny, that is my Ahlul Bayt. The

Merciful has informed me that these two shall not

separate from each other till they come to me by the

Pool (of Paradise).







All Muslims -- Sunni’s and Shi’as alike -- consider this

hadeeth to be 100% authentic. It has been narrated by so

many sources and so many generations of Muslims that it is

considered mutawatir, i.e. its authenticity is beyond doubt.

Some of the famous Muslim scholars who have attested to

its authenticity include:





1. Sahih al-Tirmidhi, v5, pp 662-663,328, report of 30+

companions, with reference to several chains of transmitters.



2. al-Mustadrak al-Hakim, Chapter of "Understanding (the

virtues) of Companions, v3, pp 109,110,148,533 who wrote

“this tradition is authentic (Sahih) based on the criteria of

the two Shaikhs (Bukhari and Muslim).”



3. Musnad Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, v3, pp 14, 17, 26, 59, v4,

pp 366,370-372, v5, pp 182,189,350,366,419



4. Fadha'il al-Sahaba, by Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, v2, p585,

Tradition #990



5. al-Khasa'is, by al-Nisa'i, pp 21,30



6. al-Sawa'iq al-Muhriqah, by Ibn Hajar Haythami, Ch. 11,

section 1, p230



7. al-Kabir, by al-Tabarani, v3, pp 62-63,137



8. Tafsir Ibn Kathir, under commentary of verse 42:23 of

Quran (four traditions).



9. Abu Dawud, Sunan, as mentioned in Sibt ibn al-Jawzi,

Tadhkirat khawass al-’ummah, 322.



10. al-Bayhaqi, al-Sunan al-kubra, ii, 148, vii, 30, x, 114



11. Ibn Taymiyyah, Minhaj al-Sunnah, iv, 85



12. Ibn Kathir, al-Bidayah wa al-nihayah, v, 209, vi, 199,

from al-Nasa’i, where he quotes al-Nasa’i’s statement that

this narration is sahih.



13. adh-Dhahabi, Talkhis al-Mustadrak, iii, 109







The hadith about the quran and my sunnah is really weak, also, how would you follow the sunnah if it is written after the death of the prophet in 100 years ( or maybe less) but it was written after a long time of the death of the prophet so there might be a lot of playing in the ahadith. That's why the prophet (SAAWW) said you should hang in with the book of Allah and his Ahul Al Bait for they were the 'speaking Quran' as he, the prophet, has stated

Answer 10

Imam Malik one of the four great Imams wrote in his book that Shias are the worst liars. They do nothing but lying. They believe Taquiyah (lying) is allowed in their religion.



Rasoolallah SAW said during the only Haj he performed few months before he died said, I am leaving two things- Quran and my Sunnah. If you abuundon any one these two, you will go stray. Shias are the people who are strayed from the truth and right path of Allah by constantly fabricating statements associatimg with Prophet Mohammad though he never said many of the statements that Shias claim he said. Prophet never talked about his Ahle Bayte, and never said that Ali will be next leader of Muslim. This is fabricated lie and not a true statement of Prophet SAW. 80% of Muslims say Prophet never said such a thing. Shias are only less than 20% of total Muslims. How can they be true and 80% Muslims are wrong.



Nearly all Sahabah were with Prophet on the trip of Haj. How come none of the other Sahabah heard it from Prophet and only the followers of Ali RA heard him saying that. Prophet addressed to 10,000 Muslims in that Haj. In his conversations with his Sahabahs Abu Bakar, Omar, Othman, and many closest companions were always with him. How it is possible that none heard such things from Prophet SAW.



Abu Bakar and Omar bin Khattab and all rest of the Sahabah loved Prophet SAW so much, that if he had said that choose Ali as your next leader, none of them would have accepted the

leadership if even all Sahabah wanted to choose any one other than Ali RA. It never happend. Prophet SAW never hinted for any person to be next leader. People chose Abu Bakar because he was the closest companion of Prophet, he was the most pious man and he did more sacrifices for Islam than any other Sahabi. That is why all members of Majlis-e-Shurah (Advisory Counsel) formed by Prophet SAW chose Abu Bakar based on his above mentioned qualities or I can say credentials. Any one who curses Sahabah like Abu Bakar, Omar and Othman are the worst kind of people and I doubt if Allah will accepted them in Jannah.



Lot of Sunnis call Shias Kafirs because of their lies and false accusations against Omar and Abu Bakar. I believe I should not call any one Kafir if he believes in Allah and Mohammad SAW as Messenger of Allah. But because of their sins of constant lies and false accusations against great companions of Prophet, I think such Shias are near Kufr and may end in hell.

Answer 11

Assalamu alaykum



The question is about two holy and weighty things, so the answer won't fit here.

;)



Six versions (narrations) of this hadith:

http://www.wilayat.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=84:hadith-thaqalayn&catid=60:imamat-general&Itemid=45



A Study of Its Tawatur:

http://www.al-islam.org/thaqalayn/nontl/



From al-Muraji'at book (a dialogue [mail exchanging] between a Sunni and a Shi'a scholar):

Question:

http://www.al-islam.org/murajaat/7.htm

Answer:

http://www.al-islam.org/murajaat/8.htm

then:

http://www.al-islam.org/murajaat/9.htm

and continues...



***

http://www.al-islam.org/peshawar/3.5.html

***



2 other links:

http://www.alkafeel.net/english/hadith/thaqalayn.html

http://www.wilayat.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=237:hadith-thaqalayn-sunni-comedy&catid=64:featured-articles&Itemid=54





Edit=================



another link:

http://maaref-foundation.com/english/library/beliefs/the_shiite_apologetics/01.htm



And list of 187 Sunni scholars who narrated the "Thaqalayn Hadith" in their books!

http://rescue-vessel.blogspot.com/search/label/Thaqalayn%20Hadith%20%5BTwo%20Weighty%20Things%5D

Answer 12

if ahl ul bait like take care of my household, just like when someone dies he tells peoples to take care of his family. can we really follow Islam without following the path of prophet Muhammad? because sunnah means path.



إني تارك فيكم ما إن تمسكتم به لن تضلوا بعدي أحدهما أعظم من الآخر كتاب الله حبل ممدود من السماء إلى الأرض وعترتي أهل بيتي ولن يتفرقا حتى يردا علي الحوض فانظروا كيف تخلفوني فيهما

الراوي: زيد بن أرقم المحدث: الترمذي - المصدر: سنن الترمذي - الصفحة أو الرقم: 3788

خلاصة الدرجة: حسن غريب



تركت فيكم شيئين لن تضلوا بعدهما : كتاب الله ، وسنتي ولن يفترقا حتى يردا علي الحوض

الراوي: أبو هريرة المحدث: محمد جار الله الصعدي - المصدر: النوافح العطرة - الصفحة أو الرقم: 100

خلاصة الدرجة: صحيح

Answer 13

SAHIH MUSLIM

Book 031, Number 5920:



Yazid b. Hayyan reported, I went along with Husain b. Sabra and 'Umar b. Muslim to Zaid b. Arqam and, as we sat by his side, Husain said to him: Zaid. you have been able to acquire a great virtue that you saw Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) listened to his talk, fought by his side in (different) battles, offered prayer behind me. Zaid, you have in fact earned a great virtue. Zaid, narrate to us what you heard from Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him). He said: I have grown old and have almost spent my age and I have forgotten some of the things which I remembered in connection with Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him), so accept whatever I narrate to you, and which I do not narrate do not compel me to do that. He then said: One day Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) stood up to deliver sermon at a watering place known as Khumm situated between Mecca and Medina. He praised Allah, extolled Him and delivered the sermon and. exhorted (us) and said: Now to our purpose. O people, I am a human being. I am about to receive a messenger (the angel of death) from my Lord and I, in response to Allah's call, (would bid good-bye to you), but I am leaving among you two weighty things: the one being the Book of Allah in which there is right guidance and light, so hold fast to the Book of Allah and adhere to it. He exhorted (us) (to hold fast) to the Book of Allah and then said: The second are the members of my household I remind you (of your duties) to the members of my family. He (Husain) said to Zaid: Who are the members of his household? Aren't his wives the members of his family? Thereupon he said: His wives are the members of his family (but here) the members of his family are those for whom acceptance of Zakat is forbidden. And he said: Who are they? Thereupon he said: 'Ali and the offspring of 'Ali, 'Aqil and the offspring of 'Aqil and the offspring of Ja'far and the offspring of 'Abbas. Husain said: These are those for whom the acceptance of Zakat is forbidden. Zaid said: Yes.

--------------------------------------------------

Sunan Thirmidi, Volume 6, Chapter 31, Hadith No. 3788:



Zaid bin Arqam r.a., narrated that the messenger of Allah s.a.a.w. said: "Indeed, I am leaving among you, that which if you hold fast to them, you shall not be misguided after me. One of then is greater than the other: (First is) The book of Allah is a rope extended from the sky to the earth, and (the second is) my family, the people of my house (ahlul bait), and they shall not split until they meet me at the hawd, so look at how you deal with them after me." (Sahih).

--------------------------------------------------------------------



Sunan Thirmidi, Volume 6, Chapter 31, Hadith No. 3786:



Jibir bin Abdullah said: "I saw the Messenger of Allah during his Hajj, on the Day of Arafah (on his last pilgramage). He was upon his camel Al-Qaswa, giving a Khutbah, so he said: O People! Indeed, I have left among you, that which if you hold fast to it, you shall not go astray: The Book of Allah (Quran) and my Family, the People of my House (Ahlul-Bait).(Sahih)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There are many more hadiths like this.



BTW when Prophet(S) left us where was his sunnah?



Did Prophet (s) ever told his companions to write down his sunnah?



At that time there was no recorded sunnah thats why...



Following Ahl al-bayt(as) = Following Prophet(s)



Prophet(s) also said:

I am from Ali and Ali is from me

---------------------------------------------



also read Pedram's answer

Answer 14

assalamu aleykom

ofcours the right version is ahlel beyt ,among all sihah sitta(or tis'ah) only malik narrated it as kitabullah wa sunnati while all others who narrated thyghlayn hadith narrated it with ahle beyt word (with some diffrences) , so thats clear it wasnt sunnati

about chain of hadith and making doubt in it ,there is a question ,r some ppl accused to be shia(and not accepted) for narrations they narrated about ahle beyt ? or their narrations r not accepted bcoz they were shia ?



anyways something that always was the main question in my mind while i was looking for the truth ,it was a clear question

if we WERE propht muhammad pbuh(neuzubillah) and we had to appoint ahle beyt (starting with imam ali ) to be the successors ,what else we would to do that prophet didnt ?

-he called ali wasi ,they said it was for wordly matters (however in other hand they claim there is no irth left by prophets!)

-he called him the thyghlayn along with quran ,they said oh that means just take care of them(while in other hand they support those who fought them and killed them!!!)

-prophet said to ali ur to me in same place of harun to musa with one diffrence that there is no nabi after me (they say nah thats something else !it was just he said that to make ali happy ! thats it!)

-prophet he gatherd ppl in middle of desert gave them sermon ,informed them that hes "death" is soon then he raised ali's hand and said evryone i was his mawla ali is his mawla (they say it meant friendship !)

-prophet said im enemy of his enemies ,,prophet raised ali hand and said O'Allah be friend of his friends and enemy of his enemies ,,(sunnis say ,whos enemy?who cares? razallah evryone ! even those who were cursing ali on manabir in syria on evry sermon)

-prophet said there will be 12 khalife after me from quraysh (they say who knows who r them,lets guess !)

-prophet said im leaving u 2 khalif ,book of allah and my ahle beyt,he pbuh called them unseparateable successesors (i dont know what they say !)

I am leaving behind among you two successors: the Book of Allah, a rope between the heaven and the earth and my progeny, my Ahl al-Bayt. The two will never separate until they meet me at the Pond.

14957- عن زيد بن ثابت قال‏:‏ قال رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم‏:‏

‏"‏إني تارك فيكم خليفتين‏:‏ كتاب الله عز وجل حبل ممدود ما بين السماء والأرض - أو ما بين السماء إلى الأرض - وعترتي أهل بيتي، وإنهما لن يتفرقا حتى يردا علي الحوض‏"‏‏.‏

رواه أحمد وإسناده جيد‏.‏

-again my question that i asked myself many times during that period of confusion that if we had this mission ,what"else" we would to do that prophet didnt ?!!!!

-he did all of that works,and said in presence of thousands follow my ahle beyt to not go astray (then they make kilometers of stuf to say no he didnt say that!) ,thats why his pure heart wasnt calm and wanted to write it down,he wanted to write his hadith ,the order ,he wanted to write something with same description" to prevent us from going astray" ,,but what happend ? the ppl who r known today to be leaders of "sunni" ppl said we dont need his writing ,quran is enough ! the ppl who burnt hadith and banned narrating sunah ,r known as leaders of sunnah today !

what else we would to do ?

what else ?

Answer 15

in order to answer diamant, im going to use my older account......



first of all, i would like to point out to the fact that what she has provide is only a copy and paste from the so called "knowldgable" people of their sect, so any problems found in her answer can not be ignored by excuses which blame her lack of knowldge......



in her copy and paste, they claim how the hadith recorded in trimidhi is "weak", but it seems like they have not seen the version of al­Hakim al­Naysaburi, al­Mustadrak `ala al-Sahihayn where he insists on how the hadith is sahih based on the method of bukhari and muslim.....



she says that Prophet (s) mentioned Quran and Sunan in the last hajj, but when it came to Khum, Prophet (s) mentioned Quran and Ahl-ul-bait (as) since people who were going to medina were there so thats what He (s) said......



she needs to realize 2 things here, one that by saying this she;s making the Prophet (s) sound like He (s) countradcited Himself (AstaghfureAllah)



how can the Prophet (s) in the last hajj tell people it's Quran and Sunna but in Khum say it's Quran and Ahl-ul-bait (as)?



so did Prophet (s) order different things and contradicted himself?



indeed no

this is the 2nd point



even in the last Hajj Prophet (s) mentioned Quran and Ahl-ul-bait (as)



....Jabir ibn `Abd Allah said: "I saw the Messenger of Allah - upon whom be God's peace and benedictions - in the course of his hajj pilgrimage on the day of `Arafah. The Prophet (S) was seated on his camel, al­Qaswa', and was delivering a sermon. I heard him say: 'O people, I am leaving among you that which if you hold on to you shall never go astray: the Book of Allah and my kindred, my household."



Al­Tirmidhi states that the same tradition has been narrated by Abu Dharr, Abu Sa`id, Zayd ibn Arqam and Hudhayfah ibn Usayd.



Among others who have recorded this tradition are:



1. al­Hafiz Ibn Abi Shaybah, as in Kanz al­`ummal (1st ed.), i, 48;

2. al­`Uqayli in al­Du`afa' al­Kabir, ii, 250;

3. al­Hakim al­Tirmidhi, Nawadir al-'usul, 68, 50th asl;

4. al­Tabarani, al­Mu`jam al­kabir, iii, 63, no. 2679;

5. al­Khatib, al­Muttafiq wa al­muftariq, cf. Kanz al­`ummal, i, 48 and Majma' al­zawa'id, v, 195; ix, 163, x, 363, 268;

6. al­Baghawi, al-Masabih, ii, 206;

7. Ibn al­'Athir, Jami` al­'usul, i, 277, no. 65;

8. al-Rafi`i, al­Tadwin, ii, 264 (in the biographical account of Ahmad ibn Mihran al­Qattan; this hadith has been deleted in the Indian print, but is present in the manuscripts of the book ! );

9. al­Mizzi, Tahdhib al­kamal, x, 51, and Tuhfat al­'ashraf, ii, 278, no. 2615;

10. al­Qadi al­Baydawi, Tuhfat al­'ashraf;

11. al­Khwarazmi, Maqtal al­Husayn (A), i, 144;

12. al­Khatib al­Tabrizi, Mishkat al­masabih, iii, 258;

13. Ibn Kathir, Tafsir (Bulaq edition, on the margin of Fath al­bayan), ix, 115;

14. al-Zarandi, Nazm al­durar al­simtayn, 232;

15. al­Maqrizi, Ma`rifat ma yajib li Al al­Bayt al­Nabawi, 38.





we all know the Prophet (s) also mentioned Quran and Ahl-ul-bait (as) AGAIN in Ghadir



Prophet (s) had once again reminded people about these 2 in the Mosque of Medina



and once again on the His deathbed........



and we all know how omar disoabyed, opposed and insulted The Prophet (s) on His deathbed when He (s) wanted to put these 2 on paper....





now what is more intresting is diamant claims the hadith about Quran and Sunna is the one being mentioned in the last hajj, but



1. this hadith has ONLY been mentioned by sunnis and is NOT recorded by Shias, unlike the other version which is reported by BOTH Shias and Sunnis

2. even BOTH muslim and bukhari have AVOIDED recording the hadith about Quran and Sunna



diamant also goes on to say how Shias are not reliable.......

but they have forgoten that even in bukhari and muslim there are hadiths which include chains of Shias......

......some who were known to be extreamist and would not let people called "muawia" to enter their homes!







so i would like to ask the following Questions.......



1. if Prophet (s) mentioned Quran and Sunna in hajj, which as they claim it was mentioned in front of a lot more people, then how come the Sahihayn have not recorded such important hadith?



2. if Prophet (s) mentioned Quran and Sunna, then why didn't He (s) mention "Sunna" in Ghadir? wasn't the "Sunna" something that those people should had followed? (please note Prophet [s] ONLY mentions leaving us 2 things, Quran and Ahl-ul-bait [as])



3. if as you say the event of Ghadir Khom was because of some argument between Imam Ali (as) and some other people, then why did Prophet (s) kept thousends of people in that hot weather for 3 days and made them give baya to Imam Ali (as)?



4. what was the writing of Prophet (s) going to be on His deathbed which would keep us away from going astray?



5. why didn't umar say anything when abu bakr was saying his will on his deathbed?



6. even if as you try to mislead people, for the sake of argument, we say Prophet (s) was only talking about the "behaviour" of people towards the Ahl-ul-bait (as), then why did abu bakr take away Fadak From Bibi Fatima (as) and made Her (as) angry at himself? why did omar play the whole "give baya or die" method with the Ahl-ul-bait (as)? was this the kind of behaviuor Prophet (s) was talking about?



7. on the deathbed of Prophet (s) when He (s) asked for pen and paper and when omar acted that way and said Quran is enough for us, why didn't he mention anything about "Sunna"?



8. if Quran is enough for us, then why didn't abu bakr act acording to Quran about the matter of Fadak and fabricated hadiths from Prophet (s)?



9. having a leader was so important to the companions that they left the funeral of Prophet (s) to choose their own leader, was Prophet (s) unaware of this need? (AstaghfureAllah)



10. was Allah SWT unaware of this need? (AstaghfureAllah!!!)



11. if as you claim the event in Khum didn't have anything to do with electing Imam Ali (as) as caliph, and since Islam was completed before the death of Prophet (s) then why was it left to people to choose their own leader?



12. can you bring a story from the Holy Quran where people were told to choose their own leaders? (please see 28:68 and 2:247 before answering)



13. if Prophet (s) was only trying to tell people about the behaviour of muslims towards the Ahl-ul-bait (as), then what should we say about muawia Laeen, zubair and etc who fought against Imam Ali (as)?



14. what should we say about ibn umar who was among the first ones to give baya to yazid Laeen?!



15. if Shias are not to be trusted, then why are there Shia narrators seen in the sahihayn?



16. if your sahihayn are so great, why is it that almost 50% of bukhari is only narrated by 3 people, who either fought the Ahl-ul-bait (as) or supported those who did (ayesha has narrated more than 17% of bukhari, abu hurraira and ibn umar have each narrated more than 15%)



i could continue the questions.........

.....but i think i'll just stop here





Prophet (s) didn't tell people 2 different things in 2 different places, there are no contradictions in Islam.........





and May Allah SWT save us from the lies against Him (SWT), His (SWT) Prophet (s), His (SWT), and the Ahl-ul-bait (as) of His (SWT) Prophet (s) InshaAllah........

Answer 16

we all know very well that the prophet left two things...Quran and his sunnah........

Answer 17

►The third chain of narrators as reported in Tirmidhi is:



Ali ibn al-Munzir al-Koofiy - Mohammed ibn Fudhayl - Al-A`mash - `Atiyyah - Abu Sa`eed.





The first, second, and fourth narrator in this chain (i.e. Ali ibn al-Munzir al-Koofiy, Mohammed ibn Fudhayl, and Atiyyah) are all known to be Shia. Based on this alone, the narration can be disregarded. Besides this, Mohammed ibn Fudhayl is also criticized by Ibn al-Mubarak as not being approved of by his contemporaries. (Dhu`afaa al-`Uqayliy). Moreover, Mohammed ibn Sa`d has said that ‘his narratives are not considered by many to be evidence of a true saying of the Prophet’ (Siyar A`laam al-Nubalaa).





The fourth narrator in this chain is Atiyyah. Shaikh Al Islam states regarding him in his Taqrib: “He was a Shia and a concealer.” Imam Dhahabi states regarding him in his Mizan Al I’tidal: “he was Dhaeef (i.e. unreliable).” Yahya ibn Mu`een considers him to be Dhaeef - i.e. unreliable (Al-Kaamil fi al-Dhu`afaa). Ahmad ibn Hanbal says that he incorrectly ascribes narratives that he hears from al-Kalabiy to Abu Sa`eed (Al-Kaamil fi al-Dhu`afaa). The same thing is reported by Ibn Hibbaan (Tehzeeb al-Tehzeeb). Ahmad ibn Hanbal says that Sufiyaan al-Thauriy considered him unreliable (Al-Kaamil fi al-Dhu`afaa). Ibn Hajar says that he commits a lot of mistakes (Taqreeb al-Tehzeeb). Al-Nasaaiy and ibn Hibbaan consider him to be unreliable (Tehzeeb al-Tehzeeb). Abu Dawood says: ‘He cannot be trusted’ (Tehzeeb al-Tehzeeb).





►Besides these three chains, all other chains of narration of this version of the narrative include one or more of those narrators who have been strongly criticized by scholars of Hadith. It is in fact abundantly clear that this version of Hadith al-Thaqalayn is weak and therefore cannot serve as a proof.

~~~~~~~



►Sahih (Authentic) Version



The more reliable version of Hadith al-Thaqlayn–and the one narrated in the Sahihayn–is as follows:



“I am going to leave with you two heavy burdens. The first of them is the Book of Allah: in it is the true guidance and the light. Therefore, hold fast to it.” Then he (the Prophet) prompted and induced the Muslims to adhere to the Book of God. Then he said: “And my household. I remind you of Allah in matters relating to my household. I remind you of Allah in matters relating to my household. I remind you of Allah in matters relating to my household.”



This version has been reported (with very minor variations, if any) in Sahih Muslim, Musnad Ahmad, Sunan Daarimiy, and others. In Sahih Muslim #5922, we also find that the following was said: “The Book of Allah contains right guidance, the light, and whoever adheres to it and holds it fast, he is upon right guidance and whosoever deviates from it goes astray.”

~~~~~~



►A similar narration has been accepted by the Shia, such as the following:



Al-Islam.org says



“The Prophet replied: “One of them is the Book of Allah and the other one is my select progeny (Itrat), that is family (Ahlul-Bayt). Beware of how you behave (with) them when I am gone from amongst you, for Allah, the Merciful, has informed me that these two (i.e., Quran and Ahlul-Bayt) shall never separate from each other until they reach me in Heaven at the Pool (of al-Kawthar). I remind you, in the name of Allah, about my Ahlul-Bayt. I remind you, in the name of Allah, about my Ahlul-Bayt. Once more! I remind you, in the name of Allah, about my Ahlul-Bayt.



References:

- A’alam al-Wara, pp 132-133

Answer 18

Sahih Muslim



Book 031, Number 5920:



.....O people, I am a human being. I am about to receive a messenger (the angel of death) from my Lord and I, in response to Allah's call, (would bid good-bye to you), but I am leaving among you two weighty things: the one being the Book of Allah in which there is right guidance and light, so hold fast to the Book of Allah and adhere to it. He exhorted (us) (to hold fast) to the Book of Allah and then said: The second are the members of my household I remind you (of your duties) to the members of my family. He (Husain) said to Zaid: Who are the members of his household? Aren't his wives the members of his family? Thereupon he said: His wives are the members of his family (but here) the members of his family are those for whom acceptance of Zakat is forbidden. And he said: Who are they? Thereupon he said: 'Ali and the offspring of 'Ali, 'Aqil and the offspring of 'Aqil and the offspring of Ja'far and the offspring of 'Abbas. Husain said: These are those for whom the acceptance of Zakat is forbidden. Zaid said: Yes.





Book 031, Number 5921:



This hadith has been narrated on the authority of Zaid b. Arqam through another chain of transmitters.





there are many many more great sunni scholars who have reported and recorded the TRUE version of hadith which talks about the Holy Quran and the Holy Ahl-ul-bait (As), here are some:



- al­Hakim al­Naysaburi, al­Mustadrak `ala al-Sahihayn (Beirut), volume 3, pages 109-110, 148, and 533). He expressly states that the tradition is sahih in accordance with the criteria of al­Bukhari and Muslim; al­Dhahabi has confirmed his judgement

- Muslim, al-Sahih, (English translation), book 031, numbers 5920-3

- al­Tirmidhi, al-Sahih, volume 5, pages 621-2, numbers 3786 and 3788; volume 2, page 219

- al-Nasa'i, Khasa'is’Ali ibn Abi Talib, hadith number 79

- Ahmad b. Hanbal, al-Musnad, volume 3, pages 14, 17, 26; volume 3, page 26, 59; volume 4, page 371; volume 5, pages 181-2, 189-190

- Ibn al­'Athir, Jami` al­'usul, volume 1, page 277

- Ibn Kathir, al­Bidayah wa al­nihayah, volume 5, page 209. He quotes al-Dhahabi and declares this hadith to be sahih.

- Ibn Kathir, Tafsir al-Qur’an al-‘Azim , volume 6, page 199

- Nasir al-Din al-Albani, Silsilat al-Ahadith al-Sahiha (Kuwait: al-Dar al-Salafiyya), volume 4, pages 355-8. He lists many chains of narration that he considers reliable.



اللهم صل على محمد وآل محمد وعجل فرجهم



اللهم عجل لوليك الفرج



@ ~Anita~



please let me give you the AMAZING answer of my Holy Imam (as) to the caliph of His (as) time who wanted to know about what you want to know



the Holy Imam (as), Imam Musa Jafar (as) recited the following Holy Verse of the Holy Quran:



"And We gave to him Isaac and Jacob; each did We guide, andNoah did We guide before, and of his descendants David and Solomonand Job and Joseph and Aaron; and thus do We reward those whodo good. And Zakariyya and John and Jesus and Elias; every onewas of the good." (6:84-85)



The Imam asked the caliph: "Who was Jesus's father?"Harun replied that Jesus had no father. The Imam said: "Therewas no one, and yet Allah included Jesus in the progeny of theprophets through Mary. Similarly, He has included us in the progenyof the holy Prophet through our ancestor Bibi Fatima."





Imam (as) asked Harunif he wanted further proof. The caliph asked the Imam (as) to continue.The Imam (as) recited the following verse of the Holy Quran:



But whoever disputes with you in this matter after what has come to you of knowledge, then say: Come let us call our sons and your sons and our women and your women and our near people and your near people, then let us be earnest in prayer, and pray for the curse of Allah on the liars.

3:61



He (as) continued, saying that no one has ever claimed that on theoccasion of the spiritual contest (Mubahala) against the Christiansof Najran that the Prophet (s) took with Him (as) anyone except Ali BinAbu Talib (as), Fatima (as), Hasan (as), and Husain (as). It follows, therefore that"selves" (anfusana) means Ali Bin Abi Talib (as). "Women"(nisa'ana) means Fatima (as) and "sons" (abna'ana) means Hasan (as) and Husain (as) whom Allah (SWT) has identified as the Prophet's (PBUH&HF) ownsons. Upon hearing this argument, Harun exclaimed, "Bravo,O Abu'l-Hasan (as)" Clearly, this reasoning proves that Hasan (as) and Husain (as) are the sons of the Prophet (PBUH&HF) and that the Sa'dat Fatima(descendants of Bibi Fatima [as]) are of the progeny of the Holy Prophet (PBUH&HF).





sis, please let me know if this also answers your question InshaAllah



@diamant



thank you for your last edit, it's very nice you're concerned about sis. zaineb, and with your answer you have proven a lot and AlhamduliAllah sister zaineb is mature enough to be able to pick out the "logic" answer



goodnight to you........

Answer 19

the Hadith al-Thaqalayn, it is narrated in two different versions. One of these versions is considered Sahih (authentic) and part of the Sahihayn. The other version, however, is considered Dhaeef (weak) and is not a part of the Sahihayn.





The weak version is as follows:



“I have left with you something, which if you strictly adhere to, you shall never go astray–The Book of Allah and my progeny.”



This version has been narrated in Sunan Tirmidhi and is classed as Dhaeef (weak). Even though Imam Tirmidhi included it in his book, he himself did not consider it Sahih (authentic) and referred to it as Ghareeb (i.e. strange in its content and not widely recognized). A similar version of Hadith al-Thaqalayn can be found in Musnad Ahmad, but it too is classed as Dhaeef.





This version of the Hadith does not have any valid chains of transmission. Some of the narrators of this version of Hadith al-Thaqalayn were openly known to be Shia, such as Ali ibn al-Munzir al-Koofiy, Mohammed ibn Fudhayl, and Atiyyah Al Awfi. It is an established principle in the Hadith sciences that a narrator is rejected if the content of the narrative is peculiar to a particular deviant school of thought if it is narrated by a deviant who ascribes to such a school of thought (Al-Kifaayah fi `ilm al-Riwaayah).



In other words, a Shia narrator cannot possibly be accepted on issues related to the Sunni-Shia divide. This version of the Hadith, found in Sunan Tirmidhi, was narrated via persons who were openly Shia and therefore such a narration cannot serve as a proof. It is a well-known fact that the Shia claim that Ali ibn Abi Talib (ra) was nominated to be the Caliph by Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) at Ghadir Khumm; because of this belief, the Shia have propagated many false reports with regards to what was said at Ghadir Khumm, including what was said by the Prophet (pbuh) in regards to al-Thaqalayn. It is therefore not surprising that the modern day Shia can point to many narrations in support of Shia claims, because these reports were forged by Shia themselves; these Hadith are Dhaeef (weak).





One might wonder why these reports can be found in Sunni books, but such a wondering is based on ignorance of the Sunni science of Hadith: narrations are recorded and only afterwards graded for authenticity. The only two books which contain “pre-screened” Hadith are Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim (i.e. the Sahihayn), neither of which record this version of Hadith al-Thaqalayn.

~~~~~~



Let us examine the chain of transmission for this version of the Hadith as found in Sunan Tirmidhi and Musnad Ahmad.



►The first chain of narrators, as reported by Tirmidhi, includes:



Nasr ibn Abd al-Rahmaan al-Koofi - Zayd ibn al-Hasan al-Anmaatiy - Ja`fer ibn Mohammed - Mohammed ibn Ali ibn Hussain…



The second person in the chain is Zayd ibn al-Hasan. Zahabiy in his book “Meezaan al-Ai`tidaal” has quoted Abu Haatim as saying that Zayd is ‘Munkir al-Hadith’ - i.e. Zayd narrates repudiated and abominable narratives. Shaikh Al-Islam Ibn Hajar has considered him to be Dhaeef - i.e. a weak or an unreliable narrator (Taqreeb al-Tehzeeb). Even Tirmidhi, who has reported the said narrative, does not consider it to be ‘Sahih’. On the contrary, Tirmidhi, in his comments says that the Hadith is Ghareeb - i.e. strange in its content and not widely recognized.

~~~~



►The second chain of narrators, as reported in Musnad Ahmad Ibn Hanbal is:



Al-Aswad ibn `aamir - Shareek ibn Abd Allah ibn Abi Shareek - Al-Rakeen ibn al-Rabiy` — Al-Qaasim ibn Hassaan - Zayd ibn Thaabit…



The second person in this chain is Shareek ibn Abd Allah ibn Abi Shareek. Yahya ibn Sa`eed has considered him ‘extremely unreliable’ (Meezaan al-Ai`tidaal). Mohammed ibn Yahya says that his father said: ‘I have noticed confusion in Shareek’s principles’ (Meezaan al-Ai`tidaal). Abd al-Jabbaar ibn Mohammed says that once he asked Yahya ibn Sa`eed whether Shareek had become confused in his last days, to which Yahya ibn Sa`eed replied: “He (i.e. Shareek) was always confused” (Meezaan al-Ai`tidaal). Ibn al-Mubaarak says: ‘Narratives of Shareek are worthless’ (Meezaan al-Ai`tidaal). Juzjaaniy says: ‘[Shareek had a] faulty memory, [was] confused [in] narrating, [was] prejudiced’ (Meezaan al-Ai`tidaal). Ibraheem ibn Sa`eed al-Jauhariy says: ‘Shareek committed mistakes in four hundred narratives’ (Meezaan al-Ai`tidaal). Ibn Mu`een says: ‘When Shareek’s narratives contradict with someone else’s, the other person is preferable to me’ (Meezaan al-Ai`tidaal).



The fourth person in this chain is Al-Qaasim ibn Hassaan. Bukhari says: ‘His narratives are Munkar (i.e. repudiated and abominable) and nothing is known about him’ (Meezaan al-Ai`tidaal). Ibn al-Qattaan says: ‘nothing is known about him’ (Tehzeeb al-Tehzeeb).





►Musnad Ahmad also has a chain with Atiyyah Al Awfi from Abu Sa’id Al Khudri, but `Atiyyah was a Shia. [i'll post abt him in my other account insha allah]